Heavily debatable: discussion of the New Tier List (SBR).

S Tier

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede

A Tier

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Kirby

B Tier

Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong

C Tier

Peach
Luigi
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

D Tier

Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike

E Tier

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus

F Tier

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf


Marth not a top tier, Wario the new 3rd best, Ganon now the worst, Lucas and Ness seperated, Sonic goes up 8 spots, Luigi and Peach both reppin' the Mario series fairly well, Wolf is now the worst spacy, Luigi ranks above both him and Fox, and DK, ROB, and TL, all early contenders for top, are now dropping like flies.

All this and more, on the new SBR Tier List!

Discuss.

but teir number a good character doth not make

Bowser deserves to be moved up to bottom of C tier.
Great power, amazing tilts, decent speed, and the kooplex can really end a match well.

Lucario above Kirby. He has faster, more powerful smashes, tilts and throws, the most powerful counter in the game, a potent projectile, Force Palm chaingrab and more fluid airgame. Don't fuck with Lucario once he hits 80%. Even before then he's potent.

_Shiranui117 wrote:

Lucario above Kirby. He has faster, more powerful smashes, tilts and throws, the most powerful counter in the game, a potent projectile, Force Palm chaingrab and more fluid airgame. Don't fuck with Lucario once he hits 80%. Even before then he's potent.

Lucario's F smash is the only one that is actually used as a kill move at high level play. The same goes for Kirby, actually. Both characters have great F smashes.

Tilts don't need to be powerful, they need to be fast and able to combo. Both characters have great U tilts for comboing heavy characters at low percents. Both have mediocre f tilts; Kirby's is faster. Both have fairly bad d tilts; Kirby's is higher in priority.

Lucario's throws can't combo, Kirby's can. Kirby throw combo example: F throw>U air>U tilt>B air>Bair. Known as the Asdioh combo in the Midwest, very common. F throw>U air>Regrab>D throw>U tilt> U tilt/B air. Also a good variation. Lucarios pummel attack is better, but Kirby's grabs are fantastic for combos at low percents; Kirby's U throw also does decent damage and has knockback enough to kill at high percentages.

Counter sucks in all ways, shapes, and forms. Marth's is the only one that's actually good. A good player will have enough of a brain to wait for Lucario's counter frames to end, then hit him with a smash during the end lag.

Projectile point acknowledged; probably the best thing about Lucario is his Aura Sphere.

It takes a retard to fall for the forcepalm chaingrab. Kirby's grab combo does more damage and sets up better. Forcepalm grab has an incredibly small range and punishable ending lag if when it misses.

Kirby has one of the most fluid airgames in... the game (We all just lost the game). Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, Yoshi, D3, Wario, Kirby. Pretty much the peak of air game. Lucario's air game is incredibly limited. F air, D air. U air is okay, not great. Others are incredibly laggy. N air is decent for fast falling, because it has no landing lag, but nothing outside of that.

If Lucario were heavy, his special ability would be much more useful. As it is, it's... meh, it helps, but it doesn't change his moveset for the better.

And, last but not least, Lucario is crazy easy to edgehog. Kirby, on the other hand, can recover from just about anywhere.

And Lucario mainers are all emo furry lovers. Can't forget that one.

Minby_Aran wrote:

Bowser deserves to be moved up to bottom of C tier.
Great power, amazing tilts, decent speed, and the kooplex can really end a match well.

I actually think Bowser should be moved up, just a spot or two. He's got some really good gameplay mechanics. A chaingrab on some characters, the Klaw, etc. Just not too much. He's too damn easy to smack around. And he needs a better recovery, no doubt there.

Me=emo furry lover? Okay, you keep thinking that...

_Shiranui117 wrote:

Me=emo furry lover? Okay, you keep thinking that...

You don't main Lucario, you main Marth. Silly. xD

And that's actually a quote from a blog on AiB. I had to throw it in there, sorry. xD

I agree with everything Wil said, except Kirby's f-smash. It's actually pretty terrible, which leads to Kirby's weakness: All his kills moves are slow, and though they are powerful, they are extremely predictable.

Bowser...lacks tournament representation, but he is good. I like his placement now though, you're talking about putting him in the same tier as Luigi :O

Speaking of Luigi, B tier by next tier list. I'm calling it now. He's been highly considered a prime CP for Diddy and Olimar, and a lot of people on the west (and east) coast are beginning to learn him. Add to the fact that Boss is killing MKs, Biglou is pwning Georgia and I'm....winning tournaments in NS (<3), I think it's safe to say Luigi will rise to B tier. How high? Probably bottom of it.

Wario is going to stay where he is, his worst matchup is MK, and grab releases rape him. Luckily, his air camping game is so good, and his overall style is so amazing, that he's one of the few characters who can adjust to anything! He could rise, he'll probably stay, but he won't go lower.

Genesis will decide if MK gets banned or not. It will also decide if Snake can rise above him or not.

Aaand, Link will go above Captain Falcon.

<3

it looks like im in the d tier

Thanks for bumping this, Zhao.

<3 Weegee.

Ganon T_T.....

I feel you Cr0w, I feel you man.

Does he have to be at the BOTTOM of the bottom?

Yes, considering there is one good Ganon placing in the world XD

Zhao wrote:

I agree with everything Wil said, except Kirby's f-smash. It's actually pretty terrible, which leads to Kirby's weakness: All his kills moves are slow, and though they are powerful, they are extremely predictable.

Bowser...lacks tournament representation, but he is good. I like his placement now though, you're talking about putting him in the same tier as Luigi :O

Speaking of Luigi, B tier by next tier list. I'm calling it now. He's been highly considered a prime CP for Diddy and Olimar, and a lot of people on the west (and east) coast are beginning to learn him. Add to the fact that Boss is killing MKs, Biglou is pwning Georgia and I'm....winning tournaments in NS (<3), I think it's safe to say Luigi will rise to B tier. How high? Probably bottom of it.

Wario is going to stay where he is, his worst matchup is MK, and grab releases rape him. Luckily, his air camping game is so good, and his overall style is so amazing, that he's one of the few characters who can adjust to anything! He could rise, he'll probably stay, but he won't go lower.

Genesis will decide if MK gets banned or not. It will also decide if Snake can rise above him or not.

Aaand, Link will go above Captain Falcon.

<3

THANK YOU!!!

VolkeOfSilence wrote:

S Tier

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede

A Tier

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Kirby

B Tier

Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong

C Tier

Peach should be higher
Luigi ^this
Fox ^this
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

D Tier

Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike

E Tier

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus

F Tier

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf


Marth not a top tier, Wario the new 3rd best, Ganon now the worst, Lucas and Ness seperated, Sonic goes up 8 spots, Luigi and Peach both reppin' the Mario series fairly well, Wolf is now the worst spacy, Luigi ranks above both him and Fox, and DK, ROB, and TL, all early contenders for top, are now dropping like flies.

All this and more, on the new SBR Tier List!

Discuss.

[b]'d spots win
[s]'d spots fail

There is no way Fox is on the same tier as wolf
Never seen a good Wario player
All F-tier are incredibly good, just they have all been nerfed, so no one plays them anymore, but they are still awesome.
Peach and Luigi are better than C tier
I almost feel like arguing with IC, but I'll agree, for those who main them, they are pretty good
Also, Lucas may be sub-par, but he doesn't deserve E-tier.

scourge wrote:

VolkeOfSilence wrote:

S Tier

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede

A Tier

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Kirby

B Tier

Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong

C Tier

Peach should be higher
Luigi ^this
Fox ^this
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

D Tier

Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike

E Tier

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus

F Tier

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf


Marth not a top tier, Wario the new 3rd best, Ganon now the worst, Lucas and Ness seperated, Sonic goes up 8 spots, Luigi and Peach both reppin' the Mario series fairly well, Wolf is now the worst spacy, Luigi ranks above both him and Fox, and DK, ROB, and TL, all early contenders for top, are now dropping like flies.

All this and more, on the new SBR Tier List!

Discuss.

[b]'d spots win
[s]'d spots fail

There is no way Fox is on the same tier as wolf
Never seen a good Wario player
All F-tier are incredibly good, just they have all been nerfed, so no one plays them anymore, but they are still awesome.
Peach and Luigi are better than C tier
I almost feel like arguing with IC, but I'll agree, for those who main them, they are pretty good
Also, Lucas may be sub-par, but he doesn't deserve E-tier.

again... THANK YOU!!!

IMHO, Fox hasn't been nerfed THAT badly... Wolf deserves D or E tier, IMHO. Sheik should move up a spot or two; infinite on MK FTW. Too easily raped by chaingrabs though ._.

And Link should AT LEAST be D tier; he still has a lot of tricks up his sleeves. He had the same problems in Melee but still raped in Aniki's hands.

one major problem with link i find is his grab. you can't chain it, and it's a pain in the ass if it doesn't connect, because you're completely vulnerable...

scourge wrote:

VolkeOfSilence wrote:

S Tier

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede

A Tier

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Kirby

B Tier

Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong

C Tier

Peach should be higher
Luigi ^this
Fox ^this
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

D Tier

Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike

E Tier

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus

F Tier

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf


Marth not a top tier, Wario the new 3rd best, Ganon now the worst, Lucas and Ness seperated, Sonic goes up 8 spots, Luigi and Peach both reppin' the Mario series fairly well, Wolf is now the worst spacy, Luigi ranks above both him and Fox, and DK, ROB, and TL, all early contenders for top, are now dropping like flies.

All this and more, on the new SBR Tier List!

Discuss.

[b]'d spots win
[s]'d spots fail

There is no way Fox is on the same tier as wolf
Never seen a good Wario player
All F-tier are incredibly good, just they have all been nerfed, so no one plays them anymore, but they are still awesome.
Peach and Luigi are better than C tier
I almost feel like arguing with IC, but I'll agree, for those who main them, they are pretty good
Also, Lucas may be sub-par, but he doesn't deserve E-tier.

I won't comment on the bolded ones, obviously.

Fox has a decent moveset, and combos, but he gets chaingrabbed so easily, it's pathetic. Pikachu can down throw him to 90% or so and up smash him, and he can't do anything. Falco's CG dominates Fox, too. I honestly feel bad for Fox players.
Wario is CRAZY good in Brawl, make no mistake. Fiction and Futile come to mind for good Wario players.
They most certainly aren't "incredibly good." Ganon moves like both of his legs are broken, Link has the worst recovery in the game, Captain Falcon has zero priority, and Jigglypuff has terrible range, among other problems. Ganon is litterally unable to beat MK and Sheik. Like, 80:20.
I agree with this. Zhao's already mentioned Weegee. Not too many people play Peach, but she's got crazy good potential.
Lain makes ICs look top tier. It's sick.
Lucas actually does deserve E-tier. It's not like F tier, where they're all actually really bad; Lucas is actually not too shabby, but his weaknesses are still there. Hey, SOMEBODY has to be low tier. And I like Lucas, too. =/

um... "worst revocery in the game? what about DK? or bowser? just to name a few...

_Shiranui117 wrote:

IMHO, Fox hasn't been nerfed THAT badly... Wolf deserves D or E tier, IMHO. Sheik should move up a spot or two; infinite on MK FTW. Too easily raped by chaingrabs though ._.

And Link should AT LEAST be D tier; he still has a lot of tricks up his sleeves. He had the same problems in Melee but still raped in Aniki's hands.

Wolf... he's a mixed bag, I really don't know what to say about that one. xD

Sheik has potential, but she has bad priority that sort of ruins her potential. =/ I like Sheik too, it suuuucks. Though those combo thingies are nice. They're just situational, unfortunately.

Link had better recovery in Melee and could L cancel his landing lag.

td260 wrote:

um... "worst revocery in the game? what about DK? or bowser? just to name a few...

Donkey Kong has great horizontal recovery. His vertical may suck, but don't get meteor smashed and don't be stupid, and it's really not a problem.

Bowser's sucks, LOL. But it isn't as bad as Link's. Link... throw him off the stage, hit him with a projectile, edgehog.... that's one stock. =/ I like Link too, I almost mained him in SSB64. T_T

VolkeOfSilence wrote:

_Shiranui117 wrote:

IMHO, Fox hasn't been nerfed THAT badly... Wolf deserves D or E tier, IMHO. Sheik should move up a spot or two; infinite on MK FTW. Too easily raped by chaingrabs though ._.

And Link should AT LEAST be D tier; he still has a lot of tricks up his sleeves. He had the same problems in Melee but still raped in Aniki's hands.

Wolf... he's a mixed bag, I really don't know what to say about that one. xD

Sheik has potential, but she has bad priority that sort of ruins her potential. =/ I like Sheik too, it suuuucks. Though those combo thingies are nice. They're just situational, unfortunately.

Link had better recovery in Melee and could L cancel his landing lag.

When I used Wolf, there really was only one right way to use him. You have to master even the simplest maneuvers to last a minute with him, and his ledgegrab range is the worst in the game.

I no rite? ;-;

Granted.